In defense of entry level | Stephanie Tkach

[Stephanie] (0:00 - 0:25)

I didn't realize that there were so many great organizations in workforce development helping to make, helping to upskill people that had the right stuff to be successful, but then also helping to make that talent pool feel a little smaller for you as a hiring manager. So what I definitely want to say is that you can still hire entry-level talent from non-traditional backgrounds.

[Dillon] (0:34 - 0:44)

What's up lifers and welcome to the Daily Standup with Lifetime Value, where we're giving you fresh new customer success ideas every single day. I got my man JP with us, JP, do you want to say hi?

[JP] (0:45 - 0:46)

Hey, what's going on?

[Dillon] (0:46 - 0:55)

And we have Rob with us, Rob, can you say hi? What's up people? And we have Stephanie with us, Stephanie, can you say hi?

[Stephanie] (0:55 - 0:56)

Hey everybody.

[Dillon] (0:56 - 1:02)

Hello. Hello. And I am your host.

My name is Dillon Young. Stephanie, thank you so much for being here. Can you please introduce yourself?

[Stephanie] (1:03 - 1:33)

Yes, absolutely happy to introduce myself. So I'm Stephanie. So excited to be here today, y'all.

I'm joining you all from a nonprofit called Kind Work. We run a free seven week fellowship that helps people with your traditional in-person service backgrounds like retail, hospitality, food and beverage. We layer on some digital skills with CRM platforms and help them get into the tech industry through entry level CX roles.

[Dillon] (1:34 - 1:49)

Very cool. Very cool. So I believe you are uniquely positioned to bring something new to the conversation today, Stephanie.

I'm excited to hear what it is. You know what we do here. We ask every single guest one simple question, and that is what is on your mind when it comes to customer success.

So please tell us what that is for you.

[Stephanie] (1:50 - 1:56)

Yeah. So lately, what's been on my mind is where did all the entry level roles go?

[Dillon] (1:57 - 2:12)

Saucy, spicy. And I love that you big fat period on the end of that or question mark. So here's my here's my clarifying question, or maybe not.

Maybe just keep going. I kind of want to let you go before I color this in any way.

[Stephanie] (2:12 - 3:40)

Yeah, I think I've been so I look at a lot of job postings. That's part of my job at Kind Work. And I've been seeing a trend.

It's not a new trend. It's been happening for a while, but companies are just increasingly expecting entry level employees to arrive with years of experience. And then simultaneously, a lot of them are struggling to build these like long term stable customer success or support teams.

And so I really believe that a big part of that solution is to rethink how companies are building their talent pipelines. I think particularly by investing in candidates from nontraditional backgrounds who already have strong customer service skills. And I've actually seen the impact of this in my own work.

So before joining Kind Work, I spent 12 years working in the tech industry as a hiring manager. And when we were making hires from these nontraditional backgrounds, those are the people that were staying with us the longest, they were the most open to change, and they were bringing some really like unique perspectives to the work. And those are the people that grew in their careers and now are senior managers, directors at tech companies, the ones that we gave the chance to early on.

So that's really what's on my mind. It's this trend that's happening. Why are we doing this?

How come we're hiring a lot of like overqualified talent, I would even say, for these entry level roles? And is that going to benefit us in the long term in customer success and support?

[Dillon] (3:40 - 4:14)

nt today, early first quarter: 2025

Or do you think there are ways around it? And how does that have you seen this, let's say, cement itself in the current economic climate versus maybe when you started with kind work?

[Stephanie] (4:15 - 6:39)

Yeah, totally. So I think it makes sense. There are a lot of really qualified, talented people that are on the job market that are coming with years of experience.

And because of the way the market is, they are increasingly more willing to like take lower pay, right, and enter some of these entry level roles. And so that can be really appealing as an employer to say, well, why wouldn't I take this person with five years of experience as opposed to this person who's been a barista for the last couple of years? But I think one of the top things that you see when this happens is turnover is just so much higher because satisfaction and role is so much lower.

So they have this idea like, OK, I need a job. I'm going to take whatever job comes my way. But really quickly, they become disengaged.

And on top of that, they're actually, I find, more resistant to change. So there's a lot more friction because they're coming with all this experience and maybe a perspective of like, well, this is how we've done it before, that people who are coming from these non-traditional spaces, they are a lot more eager and excited and more open to learning. And on top of that, when you pull in like very early career, they are more interested in even some of the things that are happening around like AI, for example, where some people who've spent many years in the industry are more resistant to supplementing their work with that.

We're finding that a lot of the young adults that we work with in our program are super excited to be part of that transition. And so you're pulling in people that have the potential to really grow with your company long term. When you pull in that overqualified talent, you're solving sort of the problem in the moment, but they're likely not going to be there in six months or a year.

And so you're going to then spend even more money as recruiting teams get smaller. I'll say this too. As recruiting teams get smaller, it's important that you really be thoughtful around talent, like where you're spending your resources in terms of recruiting for people who are going to stay at your company long term.

And I think that spending on like things like training, for example, is going to lead to future leaders. And you can spend maybe a little less on this constant cycle of recruiting that you're finding yourself in when every six months or a year you're having to refill that entry level role.

[Dillon] (6:40 - 7:16)

Rob, you invited Stephanie, so you are going to be in the closing position. First, I want to go to JP because I think he actually has some really good experience and perspective to add here, because JP, it is a part of your CS origin story that you came from retail. And so I want to hear about what your experience was in looking for your first CS job.

Did you see that through line? Was that a part of your pitch when you were interviewing? And I'd also love to hear whether you agree with everything that Stephanie is saying or if you want to add any nuance to it now that you have made that transition.

[JP] (7:17 - 8:50)

I mean, you want me to make a Jersey Mike sub in subway time? Well, what I'll say is, Stephanie, I really love the attention that you're bringing to this. I'll say in regards to my story, I had worked in a lot of different environments for different companies.

I guess I'm going to avoid saying their names just for, you know, whatever, but I worked as future sponsors. And so when I was looking, I don't even think in my mind I even thought about entry level so much like I didn't even think about that particular phrasing, which is why I was really interested when you said, where did all the entry level roles go? Because that is, I do agree.

I feel like I don't see that as much. And you're talking about, I think, a certain qualitative richness that an over focus on the quantitative things that hiring teams have, something that they're missing. But I think that it's hard because you also mentioned that the hiring teams are shrinking.

And so like you want to have empathy for people who are in a tough place where maybe they want to make a decision to hire someone. But, you know, I guess I'm going to pass off to Rob because I'm really interested about what happens when it's not just that hiring manager's decision and there's other people involved, because I have heard of this happening. So I'm going to sort of leave it right there because we don't have a lot of time.

But go ahead, Rob. Ooh, teaser, teaser.

[Rob] (8:52 - 9:09)

You guys are not going to, this is going to be so funny. The timing on this is uncanny because I just got off a call with someone I haven't spoken to in 15 years, someone I grew up with from my high school. And I'm literally like, I randomly came across my high school yearbook that I haven't looked at in 15 years.

[Dillon] (9:10 - 9:12)

Wow, bald eagle on the front and everything.

-: 10:57

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Class 2008.

But for me, Stephanie, I love the work that you're doing so much. I can barely think of a topic that more closely relates to my values. And one of the things that I want to help contribute back to the customer success community, because Stephanie and I have talked about this, where I grew up, not a place people would ever consider getting into a field like customer success.

People didn't even know, people don't often know anything about tech opportunities. And our high school certainly didn't help. Our high school had like a 60 percent graduation rate.

So the, you know, and most people would end up going into trades and that kind of thing. But I was lucky enough to run into people who educated me on just the basic, simple facts, these simple assumptions that opened up a huge career path to me. Like, oh, I don't have to code to work in tech.

And oh, I can actually apply my skills having worked as a waiter at a diner or as a barista in customer success. And it inspires me because I want to keep those opportunities out there. At the same time, it disappoints me because you're right, Stephanie.

I mean, there's so much temptation to fall for the seniority trap, which it can really prevent people from finding career paths that would otherwise be massive for their careers and their lives. So I'm hoping that I can keep finding ways to, you know, to help promote folks like like you and what you're doing at Kindwerk to help other people who, you know, from nontraditional backgrounds get into tech and into SaaS. But yeah, we got a got a fight ahead of us.

[Dillon] (: 10:58

Stephanie, I'm going to give you the opportunity for some parting words. But before I do, Rob, you mentioned I just want to tell this anecdote. Rob, you mentioned your high school didn't help when it came to opening your eyes to opportunities and different career paths.

I remember. So this was in the computer lab before everybody had a laptop and everything else. And I remember I think it was in like middle school.

I took a survey on our computer to learn what careers I would be best suited for. And I kid you not, the number one suggestion was gravedigger. No way.

Talk about programs and schools not being helpful in like broadening your horizons. Gravedigger. OK, Stephanie, with that, why don't you any parting thoughts before we get out of here?

[Stephanie] (: 11:50

Yeah. And I think it's going to touch on both what Rob and JP have just just talked about, which is that having to wade through thousands of applications for an entry level role is daunting. Right.

And JP talked about this like, yes, recruiting teams are getting smaller. So why not just go with the quick solution there? I didn't realize when I worked in tech, I didn't realize that there were so many great organizations in workforce development helping to make helping to upskill people that had the right stuff to be successful, but then also helping to make that talent pool feel a little smaller for you as a hiring manager.

So what I definitely want to say is that you can still hire entry level talent from nontraditional backgrounds, not spend hundreds of hours looking through applications and going through phone screens for people who are really just not qualified by partnering with workforce development organizations and nonprofits like Kindwork, really cut down your time to hire and also build the talent pipeline that you need to be successful long term.

So those are my closing thoughts is like there's a way that we can meet each other's needs in this world and really do the right thing by the people who just need us to take that that first step, that first chance for them.

[Dillon] (: 13:15

Love the positivity. Stephanie, that is our time. One last thing.

Where can folks like what's the URL for Kindwork?

[Stephanie] (: 13:21

Yeah. Kindwork.org. Super simple.

You can find us on the website. You can check us out on LinkedIn, too. Really appreciate everybody's time here today.

Thank you so much for having me.

[Dillon] (: 13:32

No, thank you, Stephanie. The pleasure is ours. Come back soon.

But for now, we do have to say goodbye.

[Stephanie] (: 13:37

Bye, everybody.

[VO] (: 13:43

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