First in, first out | Maranda Dziekonski

[Maranda] (0:00 - 0:20)

And now you get a thousand applicants within the first hour or two and now you have a thousand applicants and you are stuck to have to go through it. So you usually go through like first in first out most people or you you know kind of poke around figure out who do you want to move forth and then you mass reject the rest of them once you get your candidates.

[Dillon] (0:30 - 0:47)

What's up lifers and welcome to The Daily Standup with Lifetime Value where we're giving you fresh new customer success ideas every single day. I got my man Rob with us. Rob, you want to say hi?

You have the right to remain silent but I'm not on mute. And we have JP with us. JP, you got some corny stuff to say?

[JP] (0:48 - 0:51)

No, Rob already took all the corny stuff. Hey y'all.

[Dillon] (0:53 - 0:57)

And we have Maranda with us. Maranda, can you say hi please?

[Maranda] (0:57 - 0:59)

Hello, happy Friday.

[Dillon] (0:59 - 1:04)

Oh no. Oh no. What if we want people to think we're recording on a Tuesday?

[JP] (1:05 - 1:07)

Maranda, what an offense.

[Maranda] (1:08 - 1:08)

I'm sorry.

[Dillon] (1:09 - 1:10)

What a violation.

[Maranda] (1:10 - 1:12)

Should I start over now or what?

[Dillon] (1:12 - 1:31)

No, no, no. I'm just so offended. And I'm your host.

My name is Dillon Young. Maranda, thank you so much for being here. One of the original guests of the original iteration of this show for Lifetime Value historians.

Thank you so much for being here. Can you please introduce yourself?

[Maranda] (1:31 - 1:50)

Yeah, Maranda Dziekonski. I'm the Vice President of Customer Success at ID.me. This is my 10th tech company. And I have been doing customer success now for 25 years.

I think it's official in 25 years. Yeah. Holy smokes.

So yeah.

[Dillon] (1:50 - 1:52)

Since: 2000

[Maranda] (1:52 - 1:53)

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dillon] (1:53 - 1:55)

So you've seen some stuff.

[JP] (1:55 - 2:01)

and the: 2000

Wow.

[Dillon] (2:02 - 2:06)

I don't know what that... Don't agree with him. I know you don't know what that was.

[Maranda] (2:06 - 2:07)

I just like to smile.

[Dillon] (2:09 - 2:10)

The audience is going to love it.

[JP] (2:11 - 2:12)

They're going to love it.

[Dillon] (2:12 - 2:23)

Anyway, Maranda, you know what we do here? We ask one simple question of every single guest, and that is what is on your mind when it comes to customer success? So can you please tell us what that is for you?

[Maranda] (2:23 - 2:37)

Hiring. Hiring, people getting jobs, what's going on in this climate. That is what's on my mind.

People ping me all the time about this. So what a better way? There's no better way to serve our community, but I'm talking about this right now.

[Dillon] (2:38 - 2:58)

You mentioned climate. I say it's inhospitable at best. It is crazy out here.

Maranda, tell us what you're thinking about it. Maybe some tips or tricks or should everybody just shelter in place until it gets better? What do we do?

[Maranda] (2:58 - 4:00)

Gosh, if anybody here on this podcast or otherwise tells you that they know exactly what's going on and how to predict it, I would call shenanigans. Because quite frankly, everything that you all are feeling, it's real. It's real.

Hiring managers are trying to keep up with the whims of finance. No offense, finance folks. Finance folks are trying to keep up with what's going on in the economy.

It's tough. It's tough out there right now. I did see a little bit of a light at the end of the tunnel and I continue to see signs of it.

I see a lot of like, I just got this job. I've been hired. I've been hired.

I've been hired. But it is not easy. It's not easy for folks.

I have so many conversations where people have been looking for a year, a year and a half. It's not that there's anything wrong with these humans, but it's uber competitive and it is an employer's market to the max. It's definitely interesting times.

[Dillon] (4:00 - 4:53)

I think a lot about one of our very first episodes for this podcast. So almost a year ago, we had Kristen Gray Sykis on the show and she said one thing in the midst of her topic was about hiring too. One thing in the midst of it all was now is not the time to try and reinvent yourself.

Her advice was like, there's just way too many people who are going for these jobs right now. I don't think it has materially changed in the last year in regards to that statement. She was like, if you're trying to level up, like go from director to VP, it's going to be really hard because there's just so many VPs that are out there looking for jobs and aren't trying to go to like CCO or anything like that.

Or if you're trying to change from like sales to CS, might be really hard. That might not be a great example because we love the sales motions now. Do you agree with that?

Do you think that that's true?

[Maranda] (4:53 - 6:13)

Oh, it's a great take. I think in pockets, definitely. I think it just a typical answer.

I think it depends. It depends on what types of organizations you're going for. If you're going for massive organizations, it's going to be a different process than if you're going for series A, series B startups.

So I will say it is much harder for folks to break into a new thing or a new level when there is a market that is completely flooded with individuals with years of experience doing it. Employers are trying hard to de-risk any place they possibly can. And one of the places that they de-risk is in their hiring profiles.

And they can be picky. They absolutely can be picky, which is a tough message to deliver. But if you don't meet what they're asking for, they can pass because they'll have others that do meet it.

And I'm not saying this to have folks feel deflated. It's just the facts that they're up against, unfortunately, right now. So it's like, go back to basics, double down where you're really good.

And that's how doors will open. I hate to say, don't try and go for stretch because I've always preached to folks, go for those stretch roles. It's just right now, it's such a weird time to do that.

[Dillon] (6:13 - 6:29)

Rob, I know you are being exposed to this a lot. A lot of the companies that you're working with or talking to are also hiring. Do you find that everything that Maranda just said is pretty spot on or are you seeing anything slightly differently?

[JP] (6:29 - 6:47)

Yeah. And I think it's unfortunate. I think it's a funny position that I hold in the overall marketplace, primarily because companies that I'm working with are almost inherently growing in some capacity.

Otherwise, they wouldn't be paying me. Nobody has hired me to orchestrate a round of layoffs yet.

[Maranda] (6:48 - 6:51)

I've heard that way too much. I've done that way too much.

[JP] (6:51 - 9:08)

It's the worst. In my last job, I had to fire people and fire myself at the same time. It was crazy.

I had to have a conversation with someone like, I'm going down with you here. Our company is one foot out the door. But I think it's only gotten worse in the last couple of years, unfortunately.

And I think it's pretty unfortunate because I lends to a lot of, I wouldn't call them deliberately nefarious uses of technology, but I do think that a lot of people who are on the hiring side aren't following things that we used to consider just basic ethical standards around interviews. For example, five years ago, I remember I was trying to hire a good number of people and we made the deliberate decision, we're not going to have people do video interviews because we feel like it's just way too impersonal. Now, I wouldn't necessarily call that an ethical decision, but it was more just a matter of conduct where we want to hold ourselves to a higher standard of conduct that we're going to have a phone screen with every candidate.

Go figure. We don't want to waste their time with automated responses, canned videos, that kind of thing. But I feel like that standard has changed over time.

And it's not because the technology has changed in a meaningful way. No matter what, these AI platforms out there can say, oh, we can evaluate a candidate's fit. I've been less than compelled by some of the offerings out there.

Meanwhile, there's the other side of it, the non-technical side of the house, which I think has gotten more prevalent. I think nepotism has increased in a meaningful way in the marketplace, which is really unfortunate. There's a meme.

I don't know if I sent this meme to Maranda. We have a group chat that we have, but it's like, you guys remember over the last summer of the Olympics, there was that Turkish sharpshooter who had no tech. The meme was there's the very technical person who has the right resume, the right practice, the right experience, the right this and that.

And then the sharpshooter is just guy who's bro works at the company. I think it worries me. It worries me because I see this optimistic future where maybe all the technology and interview processes that we have can be remedied by much better technology that can actually accurately forecast whether somebody would be a great fit at a job and whether they'd thrive.

But we're just so far from that reality. And I'm worried that the path to get there is going to be pretty rough.

[Maranda] (9:08 - 9:57)

Here's the funny thing, Rob. I talked to a lot of, first of all, I don't know if everybody knows this. You all probably do, but other listeners may not.

I have 10 years of HR experience. I was a chief people officer as well. So I was a chief customer and people officer at Swift there for four years.

There is this big myth out there that HR people are using all of these technologies to do the screening of applicants and all of that. And I'm sure it's true in pockets, but the reality is that's not the norm, especially in some of these smaller organizations. It's actually humans.

And what tends to happen is you post your role and now you get a thousand applicants within the first hour or two. And you're like, holy, can I swear on this podcast?

[Dillon] (9:57 - 9:58)

Cool.

-: 10:44

You're like, holy, so you shut it off. And now you have a thousand applicants and you are stuck to have to go through it. So you usually go through first in, first out, most people, or you kind of poke around, figure out who do you want to move forward.

And then you mass reject the rest of them once you get your candidates. That's usually what's happening. And there's this myth out there, at least I think it's a myth, that there is an AI bot.

And I'm sure, again, I want to caveat, there probably are pockets of this, but we're just not there yet in tech to where we have this AI bot that's going through resumes and surfacing up the resumes that we need. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not seeing that.

[Dillon] (: 10:44

Yeah. And I wonder, JP, I want you to jump in here, but I wonder where then that, because what I've heard a lot personally, as well as just sort of like out there in the networks, is that the real key these days is you got to know somebody.

[Maranda] (: 10:59

Exactly.

[Dillon] (: 10:59

Not necessarily nepotism, you don't have to be related to somebody, but to get your foot in the door, you got to know somebody.

[Maranda] (: 11:06

I'm not seeing the nepotism side, Rob, which is an interesting thing, if you're seeing that. I'm not seeing somebody's just bringing in their brother, bringing in their sister, their dad's hiring their son. That happens all over the place, of course, let's be real, but I'm not seeing that as a trend.

What I am seeing though is hiring managers, recruiters, HR teams, they're so overwhelmed because the market is, it's been so they're getting massive amounts of applications for every open role that they have. They're not able to look at every resume, it's never going to happen. So they're plucking out however they do, whatever their methodology is, is it first in, first out, or if you happen to have their favorite name, I don't know.

But they're going into their applicant management system and they're like, bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop, moving the candidates forward. And when they're at offer or they get that offer done, they just mass reject the rest.

[Dillon] (: 11:58

I think we think a lot about this and we see a lot of the morale hit for job seekers, but I also wonder what this feels like for the recruiters themselves, because it's got to be really tough if they've got any level of empathy. JP, jump in here, please.

[JP] (: 12:13

Yeah, I'm going to change the tune a bit because Maranda, you're a musician, right? You like to do music. Isn't that something you do, like you sing?

[Maranda] (: 12:19

I try, poorly.

[JP] (: 12:21

You try, yeah.

[Maranda] (: 12:22

I did, Ray Nathan, Jeff Kushmarek.

[JP] (: 12:26

Yeah, I saw this.

[Maranda] (: 12:27

We all went live on a stage. We did 19 songs. Yeah, it was a long night.

[JP] (: 12:34

The reason I mentioned that is because when we talk about the subject, the reality is what the reality is. But I like to think about things in terms of harmony, in terms of finding resonance with the right places. When I think about alternative strategies in today's market, depending on the position you're in, I don't want to say beggars may have to be choosers, but for lack of a better term, sometimes that's how it is if you're in dire circumstance.

But if you can, I've often talked about a legato career versus a staccato career, which is once you recognize a threat about your job, something, now all of a sudden you want to start networking. Now all of a sudden you want to start doing all these things. But if you have more of a legato approach, which is that you say, look, times are going to change, but what I do have control over is myself.

So I'm going to continue to build relationships, to continue to network. I'm going to have target companies that maybe I want to work at. It may take you years before you become the type of candidate that can work there.

But by you taking that long form approach, then maybe you can benefit from knowing somebody at the company, but it's for all the right reasons. So I just wanted to put that out there to change the tune a little bit. We were singing in B flat, and I wanted it just to be sharp, you know what I mean?

[Maranda] (: 14:06

So just change that a little bit.

[JP] (: 14:09

Yeah, yeah.

[Maranda] (: 14:09

To kind of tie that together with my point about hiring managers and recruiters being overwhelmed, that ties in perfectly. And I've said this for years, it is almost always more about who you know than what you know. And that could be disheartening for folks that aren't great at networking.

And for those that are great at networking, it does tend to open up more doors for them. So yeah, I think you're spot on.

[Dillon] (: 14:33

Maranda, that is our time, but you gave me the perfect segue, which is you got to come back and talk about, I mean, I know you know how to network. That's how you and I originally met, but that was me, actually. I was the one networking, not you.

But I want to talk more about that. Tips people can use to level up their career through just meeting people, asking questions, how can you help, like thinking of them in certain scenarios. But for now, you do have to say goodbye.

[JP] (: 15:00

Bye.

[VO] (: 15:07

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